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John From Cincinnati Season Finale - What Did You Think?
By admin | August 12, 2007
The John From Cincinnati season finale just aired here on the east coast.
So what did you think about the final episode? Do you think that the finale was worth the buildup? Do you think the show will be picked up for another season by HBO?
Episode Recap
Eyes around Imperial Beach open to a range of strange circumstances. Butchie and Kai, asleep on the beach, narrowly avoid a roaring beach comber, while back at home Mitch watches Cissy rest peacefully. Cass lays sprawled across her Porsche’s interior, and Dickstein wakes up to find Daphne under the covers, doing some very un-Daphne-like things to him. Back on the beach, Butchie gazes out over the water, noticing two figures gliding toward him on the waves. Above, Cass films from the pier. Butchie sees that John and Shaun have returned and calls Linc, prompting the promoter to throw Tina a thumbs-up from across their bed.
Dwayne arrives at the café to find Jerri sitting in front of the computer. She asks, “Haven’t I told you not leave your f**king machine on to spew incomprehensibility at passersby like a road-side f**king bomb?” He swears he turned off the PC but then sees the footage playing across its screen: Butchie’s van rumbles into the Snug Harbor with John and Shaun in tow. Cass has followed them there, and it appears her footage is beaming to Dwayne’s computer as if via satellite. Butchie leads Shaun and John, still dressed in strange camo-patterned wetsuits from whatever journey they’d taken, into his room at the Snug Harbor and forages for some clothes to dress them in. Kai asks John if Shaun is ok, and he answers in the affirmative, adding that the pair had traveled to Cincinnati. Palaka steps outside his room just long enough to catch Linc and Tina driving up, and he scurries off to alert his boss to the goings on.
Shaun is glad to see his mother, and she accompanies them when Butchie tells him he needs to go to his grandparents. “I want to stay with John,” the boy tells them, but that’s not an option at this point. When they get to the house, Shaun asks Cissy for a peanut-butter-and-butter sandwich. Miffed, she replies, “Not tuna?” Shaun explains to Cissy and Mitch that it’s time for him to move in with his father and John at the Snug Harbor. Cissy balks at the idea, but Mitch tells her that it’s pointless to try to fight this strange new power at work in their lives. After Shaun hops the fence to head back to the Snug Harbor, Mitch begins to levitate in the living room – higher than ever before. Cissy, witnessing this for the first time yells at him, “Get down from there!” Powerless to stop it, Mitch nods toward the ceiling: “Can you turn off the fan?”
With John cornered at the Snug Harbor, Linc tries to finally get some answers from the stranger, but of course a straightforward conversation is out of the question. “If I listen right, I can hear your father,” Linc poses tentatively. John affirms the promoter’s statement but tells him his father’s words will be clearer through Cass’s camera, giving Linc the impression that Cass’s camera will somehow save them from disaster. “You’re all going to be toast,” John tells him. “We’re coming nine-eleven-fourteen.” Butchie walks up amidst this strange conversation just as Linc asks John whether he has a mother. “Your mother,” John turns to Butchie and says, “has turned herself into the worst ball-buster known to man.” Going on, John alludes that Mitch’s behavior led to the handjob Cissy gave her son, which resulted in Butchie hitting Barry, sending him into the room of Gilbert Rollins. “We are all frail vessels,” John tells them.
John walks into Butchie’s room as Shaun rolls up on his skateboard with a backpack slung over his shoulder and a surfboard under his arm. Shaun has started to sound a little more like John than himself, and though he can’t say where he went exactly, Shaun tells Butchie, “They want to sponsor us. The waves were good.” More and more frustrated Butchie asks Shaun where he went, and his son points to the sky and replies, “Cincinnati.” John steps outside with the camouflage wetsuits he and Shaun arrived in – each branded with the strange stick figure logo – and Linc advises that the combination of mentioning 9-11, heralding “the end” and sporting camo might make some people nervous. John leads him to the shuffleboard court, where the painted numbers have rearranged themselves to read: 9-11-14-10-Off. Cissy arrives in her Miata declaring, “Your father’s on the f**king ceiling.” Butchie and Shaun pile into the car to investigate, and Linc dials Jake to recruit some help. “Bring the tailor,” Linc says.
When Jake arrives, John proves his otherworldliness by repeating a snippet from one of Jake’s previous conversations that the stranger could not possibly have heard. Linc orders the tailor to print the stick-figure symbol on T-shirts and add the Stinkweed logo to the odd wetsuits. John interrupts: “We need an El Camino.” He refers Linc and Jake to a specific used-car dealership, and as the three leave to find it, Linc tells Cass that Jake wants to buy her film. He also announces to Barry, Ramon, Freddy and Palaka that he’s hosting a parade at the pier in the afternoon and wants them to participate.
John’s El Camino dealer is clearly not your typical used-car salesman; he comes off more like John’s supervisor, repeatedly telling him, “I took you offline, Country.” His interactions with Linc and Jake probe similarly bizarre territory, referring to the Yosts’ family problems and warning, “Not one damn minute to waste.” John produces $15,000 in cash to pay for the El Camino.
Cissy et al make it back to the house, where Bill and the Chemist have already arrived to watch Mitch float helplessly in the living room. Butchie suggests they pull him back down to the floor, but Mitch wards them off, saying he doesn’t want to complicate things. “Get out of here,” he tells them. “Don’t look at me.”
While everyone else struggles with existential and metaphysical quandaries, Freddy has a real-world problem to deal with. The Chinaman, a drug kingpin from Hawaii, has sent Freddy’s associate Moana in a gambit to take the dealer out and usurp his business. Freddy sees the move coming from an ocean away, though, and tells Moana that, in order to get out of the business, he’s willing to hand over the keys to the castle. “If you eat some strange f**king food that puts a brain in your head Moana,” Freddy says, “tell the Chinaman to f**k himself and ask me for the keys on your own.” Moana leaves Freddy to talk to his boss in a car outside, sending the Chinaman back to Hawaii so he can “find out what is really going on” in I.B.
Linc’s parade on the pier starts to draw a crowd after a brief hitch ends with Bill in handcuffs for overzealously managing traffic. Doling out free T-shirts and pointing at bikini models, Jake revs up the onlookers for Linc’s speech. Announcing that the Yosts have been signed to Stinkweed, along with Butchie’s student John, Linc delivers a long oration to the crowd, recounting his mistakes with Butchie and copping to committing new sins with Shaun. “The leopard does not change his spots,” Linc says, telling the crowd that Shaun’s “miracle” and “disappearance” had been concocted as a marketing scheme by that same leopard. Pinning all the week’s strange happenings to himself in order to give the Yosts cover, Linc tells the crowd he’s ceding control of the company to Jake. As Linc finishes his speech, Moana sidles up to Freddy in the crowd, telling him, “Give me the keys,” and pounding his fist collegially.
Back at Bill’s quiet house, the ex-cop finally climbs the spiral staircase to the room where his wife, Lois, died. He speaks out to Lois, sharing the story of Shaun’s departure and delivering the bad news that Zippy is gone. Almost immediately, he starts fretting over entering the room: “This is why I don’t come up here. Where do you start and stop, every event an incident? ‘Oh, if she could’ve seen this, wouldn’t she have loved that …’” Overcome by the whole experience, he prepares to descend the stairs, telling his wife he loves her. With a jolting flutter, Zippy sails in through the window and settles on Bill’s shoulder. “Lo’,” he says. “Look at this!”
August 12th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Interesting series, way too many questions unanswered, felt like I was watching Lost again. I loved the characters, but wish they were tied into plotlines more. Mostly, I just wish I knew, or could even come close to figureing out, what was going on. Will I watch season 2, if it comes to be? Probably, because they succeeded in sucking me in.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Hmmm…get hooked…figure some stuff out…still confused with some dialog…wonder if the next season will revolve around Kai???? Who knows!!! This is a tough one to follow. I do think things “somewhat” tied together,though. The launch of Stinkweed and the new line of wet suits…it’s new “brand” logo (stick figure from internet message by John). I am amazed how much Chandra West looks like “Seans” mother. Whatever.
August 12th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
I THINK THIS IS THE BEST SHOW I’VE WATCHED IN YEARS!! IT’S LIKE A GREAT BOOK THAT I CAN’T PUT DOWN! I WILL BE REALLY DISAPPOINTED IF THIS IS CANCELED! WHEN THE SOPRANO’S ENDED I WAS READY TO CANCEL HBO! IF THEY CAN’T RECOGNIZE A HIT, THEN THEY SHOULD KEEP PLAYING THE SAME OLD MOVIES AND BECOME EXTINCT. DO YOU LISTEN TO YOUR AUDIENCE’S WORDS? CAN YOU HEAR MY WORDS?
August 12th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
I really enjoyed this show, even though half the time the characters sounded like they were speaking in Zen koans, or poetry, or something. Quite often I felt like I was watching Twin Peaks all over again, because I had that feeling of really enjoying what’s going on, but only half understanding it, and not really being bothered by that!
Elsewhere on the web it says that this show is “soon-to-be-cancelled,” which would be a shame, I think. The characters just beg to be further developed, followed…though the trailer for this episode promised answers, it most certainly didn’t deliver on that. Instead, it delivered more questions. I hope it can come back and answer them. If they knew the show was to have such a short run, I think it was mistaken to open up so very many questions and to begin so many complicated characters that would never have the time to be developed.
Anyway, it has been a fun journey; I get the biggest kick out of John.
And I agree with the previous person who commented that Shaun’s mother was just perfectly cast; those two characters really look alike!
If the show doesn’t come back, it makes me wonder what will be, if any, HBO’s Sunday night “anchor show.” Wasn’t it always either the Sopranos or Six Feet Under or Big Love or something equally big? I look forward to whatever’s next…
August 12th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
This is one of THE most important shows being aired. The constant goodwill of each character and extension to one another, despite the tangle of their emotions and pain-filled limitations, is uplifting and reveals a key to their individual and race evolvement. I’m loving this show - it’s gotta be back next season.
August 12th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
I thought the show was fantastic. I’ve read many posts around the Web that the finale did not provide enough answers. Personally, I find questions more interesting than answers, so that didn’t bother me a bit.
THE PRISONER didn’t provide any concrete answers either, and that is a large part of the reason why the show is still discussed 40 years after it concluded.
I was entranced by every episode–by the mystery, the humor, and the language. Each installment had moments that made me laugh out loud and often had character moments that had me near tears (mainly scenes featuring Bill or Butchie). What more could you ask from an entertainment?
Hopefully, JFC is inexpensive enough that HBO will decide to greenlight a second season. My friends (who gathered weekly at my house) and I will gladly partake of a second helping.
August 13th, 2007 at 9:57 am
I like the Lost type questions it leaves on the table. Season 2 will be on lock when it comes out. HBO has done it again.
Also can’t wait till the new season of Curb comes out!
August 13th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Jen N, how about HBO anchors with Entourage and don’t forget Curb is coming back for another season.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:02 am
After viewing the first episode, I was intrigued with the Yost family of Imperial Beach. I liked the characters, the setting, and the mystical feel of the show. However, as the series went on the characters did not develop. Each one simply went to the extreme with its stongest trait. Cissy stomps around angry and vulgar, all the time. Butchie swearing and shaking his head, Mitch consumed with himself, Bill lost in his own world, etc. This show had potential. I think that the finale ruined any hope of a second season. Milch is playing a practical joke on hbo viewers by giving us a great idea and then just trashing it completely. It is such a free for all, anything goes without a connecting thread. Milch hung himself with that thread. I really would have liked to have seen John be some sort of celestial being rather than the idiot sevant he turns out to be. There are too many new characters added in each episode as well as too many plot lines. What is up with the dead people in the bar? Where did that go? I am disappointed.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Interesting to see how each character is somehow tied to the Yost family. As the show went on we saw the development of the each characters problems and how the X-factor of JFC assisted in the further growth of these people. John ended up helping allot of people, even if they didn’t know it.
Episode by episode you can see that.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:32 am
I sincerely hope HBO does not cancel JFC. I love the show in spite of the constant state of confusion I’m left in after watching each episode. Hopefully, next year, they truly will answer the many questions all of us have. I appreciate the posts with personal insights about what some of it may mean. You might be on to something!
August 13th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Was hooked this year, and would like to see the show picked-up for another year. Having said that, I don’t know how tolerant I’ll be of another season of some of the zen bullshit spewed from episode to episode. And the totally without basis in reality scenes featured in some of the episodes (e.g. the finale’s parade, featuring I.B. residents listening to a long diatribe from a P.R. firm, about the P.R. firm and it’s involvement with a surfer?, or the apparent lack of emotion surrounding Sean’s return-from-surely-fatal injuries early in the season, or many other non-sequiturs).
The characters keeping me from throwing my remote through the plasma screen: Bill Jacks, the Hawaiians, Dickstein, and the hilariously understated Luis Guzman.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Oh, … and don’t forget Flight of the Conchords - funny to hilarious week in and week out. That show, plus Curb Your Enthusiasm should help pull along any other show on Sunday evening (not sure Flight has totally caught on yet, but it will). And John From Cincinnati is not “important” - it’s interesting. Sheez.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:26 am
I think the show was very interesting, at least I found myself waiting each week for the newest episode. I disagree with the statement that the characters didn’t develop, I thought that both Butchie and Lic went through some significant changes. The way someone speaks isn’t necessarily the only indicator of change. True, though that Sissy’s character was very one-dimensional.
It’s funny that nobody has discussed the plot twists that were added in the final episode, though….the ‘announcement’ that John’s primary purpose is to prevent some kind of significant ‘event’ from occurring on 9/11/2014; the intorduction, though brief, of the Used Car Salesman, who seemed to be another member of John’s clan or species or whatever you’d call it; and finally, the last second reference to Kai as ‘Mother of God’…. very, very strange stuff.
Finally, you can only hope that any show which gives minor roles to Howard Hesseman and Jennifer Grey (how do you go from the lead in ‘Dirty Dancing’ to giving head to Meyer Dickstein???) will find a way to survive for just one more crazy season…
August 13th, 2007 at 11:27 am
What the heck did I just spend 10 hours watching?
After the the Sopranos, I’m getting tired of this.
I’m canceling HBO when I get home tonight.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Did anyone else notice the final shot when it looks like the face of the surfer changes from Kai to Cass? I couldn’t believe my eyes at first but had my husband look at it again with me and he observed the same thing.
It’s a treat to watch the episode again a day or two later. JFC really grows with each viewing. I really enjoyed this show and hope that HBO continues with the next season.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
I wanted to come on the web and was hoping I would find someone explain what possibly the point of making this show was. The best I got was on another blog where the guy writes “is this a subtle nod towards Milch’s own life”. Thats the best I can come up with because of “my father freelances in Cass’s camera”. I’m sorry but this show is crap… it really is. It’s kind of like the setting is cool and you want to keep up with it because I personally just want to travel to Cali one day, but the plot is absolutely garbage. This guy talks to Teddy Bears WTF
August 13th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
to follow up… i’m really pissed off at HBO. Bring back Six Feet Under! HBO does the profound/artsy scripts really well. But this is just WAY over the top. it’s cheesy. Thanks.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
It’s entertainment. That’s all there is to it. Why must we understand? There are many things I don’t understand, and that sure doesn’t mean I don’t like ‘em. I wondered during the closer if some characters WERE speaking lines that approached abstraction. I honestly didn’t care then and don’t care now. It’s a great piece of work, and we’ll all suffer if it’s dead. What would John’s father’s words be?
August 13th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
His words, if John’s father really is supposed to be a higher power aka God, would probably be ‘Thou shalt not use my name in vain’, or, “this is crap.”
If this is how you keep yourself entertained, you’re pathetic. If you think this show has any depth, you haven’t graduated highschool.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
I have watched this show and it’s painful dialogue for the first nine. Missed last night, so I read the blog. It’s terrible! Did an A.D.D. person write, direct and produce this crap? It is pretty obvious that the writer thinks of himself as Billy Shakespear. It suffers the same exact problems as Deadwood. The only benefit is it costs MUCH less to produce.
It’s crap! Cancel it.
A 20 minute wrap up will tell us where John got his drugs and how Mitch isn’t really flying, it is all mass hysteria. I mean if everybody else is seeing dead people and apparitions it only makes sense. Must be the water.
What a waste of good electrons and a perfectly useful EM field. I’m out.
August 13th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
His visit:Day 10- the CIA finally admits to containming Imperial Beach to review Stockholme Syndrome
August 13th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
I had to read the episode guides each week to follow what was going on. Each episode was like watching a show in a foreign language when one is only slightly conversant in that language. Not that I minded working at it–the internet makes it easier. That being said, I cried like a baby at the last scene. Bill was the character I understood best. But like SIX FEET, I liked all these characters enormously from the first confusing epi. Was I dreaming, or did John imply that Sissy was pregnant??
From all that I’ve read, the series is a goner. Perhaps it was a bit too esoteric, even for HBO viewers. If a fabulous show like THE WIRE can’t develop a decent-sized audience or at least a bunch of Emmy nominations, JOHN doesn’t stand a chance. Too bad.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Rumor has it, no second season. That sucks.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
I disagree- extend Entourage to a full hour, make John From Cinci a 30 minute show. In all honesty they could tie it all up in 30 minutes, spare the bogus psychodrama that fills half the show and they might be more successful.
August 13th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
johnsFromTheShortBus….
Yeah, you’re right…the show sux because you can’t understand it…it’s like those stupid paintings by that Picasso guy…what crap! Or the melting clock that Dali guy painted…why didn’t somebody cancel him! If only HBO produced nothing but Brady Bunch reruns, then you’d be happy… God forbid an artist tries something different…..
August 13th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I love this show. I was hooked from the first moment it aired, however I think it’s gone a little awry. While I dispise all the “my fathers words” dialogue, I love Milch’s Shakespearean dialogue, and I was hoping John would be more a spiritual figure of some sort, (not Christ) healing both by telling others what they need to hear “you didn’t leave me behind Joe”, exposing why Cissy is a ballbuster and what she did to Butchie, or through deed, ala Shaunie’s accident. I would have loved to have a little less of John after these revelations and more exploration into the characters and their crises and how ones reality would be rocked if you witnessed a miracle as huge as Shaunies instead of no real introspection or consequence with more and more and more characters being thrown into the soup. I am hooked on all the characters and would have liked a little more character/relationship exploration and less alien-John’s gone-Shaunie’s-gone plot lines from week to week. Shaunie was missing twice in 3 weeks. Where was Mitch? What did he learn while he was away? Why was he magically in bed with one dimensional Cissy at the end? Can we have a little more mystery about John’s alienness (and stick figures) and a little more people trying to figure out what the hells been happening to them? Or do they have any feelings about what’s been happening? Maybe a little more focus and a little less of John? He could even be a spirit ala dead people appearing in Six Feet Under? I love Milch and I love JFC and agree with reality being lies agreed upon-but I thought the show got a little sloppy. We as a society are ready for storylines about aliens and/or unexplained spiritual/mystical experiences without all the usual Hollywood crap. I hope we get a second season to find out more about these people and to be moved by them and open to more possibilities of the unknown.
August 13th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Agree with you Doug: It was an attempt to try something different and unfortunately the vast majority of American viewers would rather watch something like “America’s Got Talent” instead of something that stimulates thinking. I enjoyed JFC and would watch another season if they decide to go with it.
On a note from the show, at the very end of the show did John call her “Cass-Kai,” when she was surfing?
August 13th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
I meant to say less stick figures - less stick figures and black curtains like Heavens Gate cult?
August 13th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
I wouldn’t say I’ve enjoyed this show as much as I’ve been challenged to think more deeply to try and figure out the material. Most people never listen to anything except what they say, so how much of a stretch is it to think that if the main character is trying to get someone to think about something, he would use the other one’s words?
Surfing as a metaphore for the spiritual (what that is to any one of us) isn’t that different from Baseball in Field of Dreams–elegant, each person on their own, truth coming from nature as a back drop. But the intriguing thing is the interjection of clues, if that’s what they are. 9/11/14 could be a date, or a number progression (9+2=11, 11+3=14), hard to say.
But it also seems clear that JFC as initials can be Jesus Fuckin’ Christ as well. But that’s too easy. Maybe Mayor Mallory could chime in on why his city is the shows namesake.
I hope the show progresses into several seasons with deeper symbolism. As for the folks who are angry at HBO, turn the channel, and for those that want it to make sense–then turn your energy toward something in real life that doesn’t make any sense. Like Iraq or people using children to blow-up themselves and other children. Really, that’s much harder to tolerate as senseless and deserves your moral outrage.
This is thought provoking TV, and I like it. 1s and 0s, dude.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Like many of you, I am quite intrigued by this show, and really want to see another season or 2.
I dont care that some of it is unfathomable, I like that it’s quirky with lots of rich characters.
I also like that I get to see lots of my home town.
Ben from IB
August 13th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
I was disappointed that very little was cleared up and more characters and more mystery added. But I’ll keep watching. I want to know where John and Shaun went. Shaun said “Cincinnati” but pointed to the sky. I don’t think the writers and producers would go to this much effort for some lame alien explanation. Remember, John knows an awful lot about each person, more than you could expect an alien to know. He sees inside of them. And while I see the obvious Christian reference, I don’t know if that’s where this is going. So what other explanation is there? So that’s why I’ll watch next season. It’s not “Rome”, but it’s entertaining.
August 13th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
This was clearly a redemption story–wounded characters find redemption if not happiness. The religous undertones/symbolism is unmistakable. Pardon the pun, but I pray for a second season!
August 13th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
why is the t.v. making me use my head? and my brain feels numb now because there can’t be any answers outside of the show. it’s all speculation. i refuse to think about it. hopefully they’ll have another season and pull it all together. yeah, that speech/parade was ridiculous.
August 13th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
yeah! keep watching Brady bunch reruns! this sho is ORIGINAL & DIFFERENT! & finnaly a show that does have alot of mystery but I like being in the dark on things sometimes thats what keeps me coming back! this show has good characters & some deep questions to be answered!like whats up with the dead guy @ the bar & why is shaunie in the bar? is he dead? or soon? & the myserious voice who talkes to barry like coming from an old record player? stuff like that leaves me guessing & I want that in a show!!! i guess I should keep watching real meaningfull showes like dancing with has-beens or the “real” O.C.! COME ON HBO!!! SECOND SEASON PLEASE!!!!!!! I think there’s real deep thinkers out there that need shows like this!! it just sucks 80% of america cant handle anything that deep!!! thats why are country is going down!! mabye 9/11/14!!!!
August 13th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
If you ask me, the real mystery is why the hell you’d want to watch some drama filled(like we dont have enough in our own lifes we feel compeled to watch someone elses!) brainless t.v. like wife swap!!! THATS WHATS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY! BRING BACK JOHN! BUTCHIE! KIA! EVERYONE!! PLEASE!!
August 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
I loved the show and hope it comes back for another season, I found it very entertaining and couldn’t wait for the next show to air. The language or verbage the used paralelled Deadwood, the seem to talk in parables. Please Do Not cancell!
August 13th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
I enjoyed this series so much. It reminded me of that powerfully unbalanced feeling I got from watching Twin Peaks, lo those many years ago- still some of the best stuff to ever grace the airwaves.
Not being a subscriber to any faith or spiritual system, I liked the non-judgemental way in which the writers posed questions of belief and faith paralell to the existence of what many consider immoral or unclean situations and individuals. No damnation is ever threatened, rather we are left to feel all is forgivable, though maybe not forgiven.
Very creative writing, so refreshing in a world filled with chaos, sadness and reality tv.
YOU GO JFC! (jeezus f**king christ?)
August 13th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
This is basically towards Doug from CT who thinks that I cannot appreciate a well made television series. I just ask you one thing- HBO as we all know is nominated for like 85 different Emmy’s this year. How many is John from Cinci up for? Goose egg baby! But those guys don’t know art right? Or maybe it’s that this show is absolutely rediculous and full of has-beens and or/no names. The actor with the most to gain from this is the kid who plays Sean and I hate to say it but he’s an annoying, whiney brat anyway. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve sat here with my friend and wondered how Mitch puts up with the pompous and maniacal Sissy. Luke Perry is absolutely the WORST. Hm I wonder how Mark Paul Gosselar got in here… possibly his connection to Milch? Why he took this I’ll never understand… he actually has talent.
I love how you compare this to Shakespeare, Picasso, and Dali. First- Shakespeare shit out more talent than Milch has ever had. You try writing every play you ever made in iambic pantameter (go ahead, Google it.)Picasso and Dali- well there’s a good argument- hold on wait a minute why can’t I recall anything they ever wrote. Oh right I remember now they weren’t writers. Lets face it ok, Milch does the cop drama very well. He cannot touch the profound. Admit it, he was trying to fill the void that David Chase left behind and you can’t even touch that. Every actor and creative person on the Sopranos is up for Outstanding in their field, like I said this show got nothing. Even a show about 4 friends who do nothing but get laid and smoke blunts got more nods than this joke of a series. Im out. Just don’t try and compare this series to any of the afforementioned writers and or artists with talent. You sound like a fool. Nuff said.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
LOL Kevin Dillon got a nod over this series. I love the character Drama by the way, and in his words “This show is extinct like the Yangtze River Dolphin”. Peace.
August 13th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
will someone explain the role of the car dealer?
August 13th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
re: El Camino.
Not that I have any real answers. I don’t think this show intends to impart any “answers” so why should I….
I think the car salesman is a symbolic character that Linc can relate to. Used car salesman = ultimate salesman of things that people need convincing to buy. Linc is himself a salesman, so he might be responsive to someone that speaks his language.
The used car salesman re-channels all the “wisdom” that John has in the past parroted to the other players (along with a few tidbits of his own), to “sell” Link and his partner on the Yost family package.
The salesman is like an additional conduit from the power behind John. Think a “let me speak to your supervisor” sort of conversation.
He assures Linc that however important he and his buddy think they are with their 25 vehicles, he is infinately more important- as what they see is but a drop in the bucket of the vast empire he controls.
The El Camino (I think it means ‘the road’ please correct me if I’m wrong) is the reason to be there. They are obtaining it for the purpose of parading the Yosts so all can behold them in their greatness. Stinkweed doesn’t even pay for the car, John produces the stack, Linc and co. are just there for the contact w/ John’s boss-man.
I am interested in other thoughts, I also plan to rewatch it this week, the benefit of DVR- yay.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
What I noticed about this last show was a “Changing of the Guards”, so to speak.
1. The past old surfer gives way to the new young surfer.
2. The past old promoter, Linc, gives way to the new promoter.
3. A new company and logo are born.
4. The 2 Hawaiians get out of the business and turn it over to another man.
5. The ex-cop makes his peace with his dead wife, and she turns her role over to the bird who suddenly reappears.
I believe these events are what “All will be revealed” was meaning. I’m still confused like many of you, but I watched every show, and hope there is a season 2.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
i really like this show. i hate however the fact i have to examine every word to piece together little tidbits of information. i feel like a crack fiend over a silly show. i must admit though I’m curious to find out what is “the end is near”, “9-11-14″, and “the towel heads are going to get themselves eradicated”. I don’t mind suspense but i can’t change the channel confused every time i watch an episode. they need to give more information.
hbo needs to bring this back for a second season so it can get better.
they need to bring extras back also.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
This show “ROCKS”
My wife and I waited for Sundays all week; this is what everyone talks about in our office.
I get it, some of my friends get it, and some are trying to get it, it is all too simple to tell.
HBO please give us more…
Now the only thing is why did the Doctor enter the empty room on days 8, what was he looking for? Why was he not in the finally.
Where is the CD, the music is fantastic.
Who wants a peanut butter.. butter.. sandwich
No More TUNA.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
Best show on TV today, imo. The character growth, interaction, mythology, and especially the dialog… It’s perfectly acted. The characters are as confused as we are, and every episode leaves me with a sense of wonder. Just because Milch and co don’t go out of their way to overexplain every single element of the show to you doesn’t mean it’s bad television. In fact, I’d argue that it’s raising the bar for everyone, and bringing back an aesthetic that’s been, at least to some extent, missing since Twin Peaks originally aired.
Please don’t spell it out for us. Let us watch and observe and experience it like characters in the drama. The way it should be experienced. And please don’t cancel it. Please, HBO. You killed Carnivale, and for that I will never forgive you. But save this one, and I’ll at least keep sending you my money on a monthly basis.
Anyone who disagrees with me is of course entitled to their opinion. But they’re wrong :-).
August 14th, 2007 at 12:27 am
It’s infinitely mesmerizing. Oh the speculation! At the end of last nite’s show John was prophesizing about what will happen to the characters. Who was it he said will come back and come back 25 years younger? Could Bill Jacks’ dead wife be the new Lazarus? What a bible. Looking forward to more foregiveness next season.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:09 am
The final episode is amazing in its curious yet tight writing as well as its symbolism. All may not yet have been realized, which is amazing… i.e. When will the figure of ones and zeros make it to a webpage? o-
August 14th, 2007 at 4:17 am
Well, I am going to make this short and sweet. I absolulely adored this show. I like edgy work and this one sure took the cake. I appreciate everyone’s comments and through them I think I have a better understanding of what really was going on. And, JFC is not a show you casually watch. In fact, you may have to watch it several times (episodes) to capture all of the amazing choreography between the characters. I was not a Twin Peaks fan, but I sure have been for Lost and other mind-altering and stretching dramas and comedies. I’m even a reality show junkie. That being said: I think that this show as a chance for folks to question their own existence, where they have been, where they are now and where they are going in the future. We all have odd moments in our lives. Albeit, I don’t levitate! But, I do find myself searching for more depth in life. I also question everything. I drove my folks nuts!!!! And, my teachers, too! John wavered between being a nerd and being totally, intellectually and spiritually profound. If you slow down the dialogue, you can capture much of what is being said. I was LOL about the comment above about the language being slightly known just enough to make you a bit crazy in trying to follow it. How often do we REALLY listen to each other or ourselves (inner knowingness)? How many times have we avoided or simply missed opportunities to connect more intimately (not in the physical way) with others around us? How many of us are brave enough to really look at our issues? See, I ask alot of questions!
Also, Picasso and Dali and Shakespere were all masters. Just like Monet, Warhol, Sinatra, The Beatles, and others who helped shape our visual world. Don’t leave out Dylan Thomas, Jim Morrison, Martin Luther King Jr. and more. They took risks.
Like Shaun, the bird went MIA, but came home to roost. Think about the last scene from The Wizard of Oz when Dorothy said that when she went looking for stuff, that what she searched for could be found in her own backyard. How much simpler can you make it?
Mitch became more enlightened and faced his fear and failures (levitation).
Sissy stared down her demons with what has been done to Butchie.
Butchie got off dope cold turkey and he began to really accept responsibility in life.
Shaun became a master of his own destiny.
Tina was able to embrace being a mother.
Kai finally stood up for herself.
Dickerstein and his wife finally learned to relate more directly.
Bill gained peace.
Palaka, et. al, were able to pull themselves out of the ditch and feel something real, plus learning to help others without a personal agenda.
The guy who owned the motel broke out of his sense of ineptitude.
Luis Guzman’s character became more overtly social.
Cass stopped relying on others to launch out to do her own thing.
Linc was able to turn loose of control of everything and everyone around him.
John learned to relate to others and share his message.
The couple at the internet shop stopped ragging on each other and were forced to focus on the impossibilities of life (what came over the net to their CPUs).
I could go on, but you see, enlightenment goes a long way in getting us off mark and onto “a road less traveled,” to borrow a statement from Scott Peck.
Now, I’ll stop. They latest on the net says that the show has been pulled. Maybe we should do a letter writing campaign to get it back. At least for one more short season to see how much more they could learn. If not, then perhaps just enjoy a trip down the “yellow brick road.”
August 14th, 2007 at 4:42 am
0 0
/O\ = /O\ = 0000000lllllllll!!!!!!!
ll / \
—————-
^
August 14th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Just saw this on Movieweb. I hope it is not true…I loved this series.
A day after airing its season finale, HBO has cancelled the surfing drama John from Cincinnati. According to The Hollywood Reporter, series creator David Milch will continue to work for the pay cable network.
Milch’s deal with HBO will run through August of 2008. He is already in the process of creating several new series for the channel. John from Cincinnati, which got mixed reviews from the critics, never managed to find its audience.
At this time, HBO is trying to decide if it wants to renew the comedy series Flight of the Conchords for another season.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:10 am
I think next season (if there is one, please please please) will be seven years in the future. Cissy will be pregnant. Shawn will be 21 and a major surf star. The main plot line will be a retaliation for 9-11 that “eradicates the towel heads” but “not all towel heads will be eradicated”. all very intriguing. As mentioned in other entries, this is much like Twin Peaks and the Prisoner. Oddly appealing charactors doing and saying inexplicable things that seem almost understandable but just out of reach. I sure hope we will see more and not be let down like with Carnivale ending before the final confrontation.
As to Entourage, Sunday’s episode ending with the trailer saying last two episodes. Is it not coming back? Are they wrapping up with E branching out into full scale management, Drama comfortably set in a TV series, Vince working with Peter Jackson on a major production, and Turtle, well he seems to be comfortable as driver/weedmeister.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:16 am
TOO LATE. Hollywood Reporter writes today “John From Cincinnati has been dropped”.
I’ll have to go back to talking to my conspiracy theorist neighbor to get my fill of complex, difficult to comprehend themes and plot lines. Damn it.
(They BETTER not axe “Flight of the Conchords” too - the best new comedy in the past couple of years. - I don’t have any neighbors who could replace THAT bit of entertainment on Sunday evenings).
August 14th, 2007 at 10:22 am
I may be mistaken, but at the very end of the finale, I think John says:
“Mother of God: Cass Kai” as Kai is surfing.
This immediately rang a bell because earlier in the episode, when Cass was filming at the Snug Harbor, Kai looks at her and says something the effect of “Not today, Chick”, or something along those lines, but definitely uses the word “chick”
Cass replies “It’s Cass Kai”. That’s not a typo; I left out the comma on purpose because that’s now she said it: without pause, is if it was one word, the exact same way that John did at the end of the episode.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it struck me as significant. Anyone else notice?
I hope and pray that this series is not canceled.
August 14th, 2007 at 10:34 am
i watched every episode wanting it to be great. i enjoyed the characters for the most part, but still felt the whole time i was watching Deadwood, but with surfers. the speech patterns and delivery was almost exactly the same for me, but i must admit that Deadwood made more sense from a story telling perspective. it roped me in and i hung on until the end hoping for some clarity. alas, nothing…..when the final episode was over, i turned my tv off, went the the nearest mirror and said to myself,”i don’t know butchie instead.”……all i can offer in the way of an explanation is this…..”i ordered for the table.”
think about that……
August 14th, 2007 at 10:45 am
johnsFromTheShortBus…
A few points:
1) I never mentioned Shakespeare at all
2) I never compared Milch to Dali or Picasso, was merely comparing your reaction to the show to the reaction some people have to Dali and Picasso (as in, I don’t understand it so it must suck)
3) Your first two comments had little or no substance, just “..this show is crap…” and a joke about the CIA, if you had made your initial posts as well though out as your reaction to my comments, it would have been a bit more interesting…
The weird thing is that you seem intelligent enough to appreciate a show like this…granted it isn’t classic literature, but I mean we’re talking about a medium that puts Survivor and The Hills on the air….
August 14th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
I am pissed that there will not be a season 2! I thought the show was very interesting and looked forward to it every week, but I see why many would not like the show. I like mystery, but that does not mean I am “deep” and/or “intelligent,” just as people who do not like the show are not automatically shallow and dumb. I think it’s hilarious that so many self-proclaimed “smart” people have the writing skills of monkeys, yet attack others for being stupid. For those that hate this show, why view/write in a forum for the show and give no useful incite?
August 14th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
My wife and I will also miss it, although we can’t really say why. Well, I’ll take a crack at it …
Near as we can tell, we came back week in and week out to find solice in the ambiguity and confusion of the show, and multi-faceted quirkiness of the side characters. I would go out of my way to watch Dayton Callie play Steady Freddy, or Ed O’Neill cut loose with Bill Jacks, or Luis Guzman playing just about any character. What a blast! Adios.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
0000000000000000lllllllllllllllll
August 14th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
I think I get it.
The human mind has created a society where things like materialism and moors and issues get in the way of what should ultimately be a spiritual experience. People get so caught up in the here and now that they go blind/jaded to the bigger picture. Most of the characters lives were in the shitter over issues that in THE END aren’t issues at all. Being hung up on a lost loved one. Hooked on drugs. Gone crazy from managing three freewheeling surfer dudes. Major frustration from running an illegal-enterprise among idiotic ilk. Being haunted by sexual abuse.
Overall, these things mean nothing and they keep the victims from moving forward with their passions and getting in the game. Their hang-ups keep them from the bigger picture, and the bigger picture won’t mean anything unless we can let go of our hang-ups in life. By the end of the show all characters set aside what has been holding them back and have started a moving forward. No longer shackled they can follow their passions.
Thats the story.
August 14th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Re: whosmav
I think you DID get it. Simple analysis, and, who knows, it could be absolutely right. Made my day. Too bad it didn’t make for more eyes on Sunday nights. Great show…gone.
August 14th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Whosmav: I think you might be on the right track though I have to disagree when you say that some of the character’s issues (being hooked on drugs, being haunted by sexual abuse) aren’t issues at all. What’s remarkable & moving about the show is how the characters find those moments of “self-transcendence” and make peace with each other (at least temporarily) despite their struggles from the past.
August 14th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
I’m not saying the character’s issues aren’t important to them, I’m saying that their inability to deal with it is the issue. Of course we all have vices that we need to break. It doesn’t matter what they are, the main thing is to transcend them. Whenever we get to where we are going the fact that you had a monkey on your back won’t matter. What will is if you let that monkey run your life. Thats all I’m saying.
Quiet down haters.
August 14th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
I was hooked big time. I was theory and utterly confused with the last episode but that just made me want a second season more. Maybe I am just a cockeyed optimist but I have to think that the creators had an overall vision that was not yet revealed itself. I really hope that HBO reconsiders and brings it back for another season.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I think you also need to consider why John would ‘Parrot’ back the other character’s dialogue. I think Linc had the right idea when he said that the answers we need are there in our own words. John wasn’t giving wisdom to the other characters, just getting them to re-examine their existence, and come up with the right solutions on their own.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
The main reason this show failed is because Milch apparently forgot how to write dialogue.
1/2 the characters were unlikeable, and almost all were unbeliavable with their ridiculous dialogue. One person spouting nonsense that is supposed to be interpreted as deep philiosophical thought is one thing, but when you have everybody doing it it begins to lose credibility.
Linc seeemd to be the only real character, and along with Bill were the only 2 I liked. It was a shame that most of Bill’s lines were also kind of nutty (though more reasonably so than anybody elses).
Next time Milch wants to pat himself on the back for how clever he thinks he really is he should write a book or paper or evne blog and not take waste screen time that can be used on shows that can have depth and still be enjoyable.
August 14th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Any show that makes you think and makes you talk about more than who the next american idol will be is good tv. If you dont understand it, so what, thats the idea…think don’t regurgitate. Bring it back and screw the critics who don’t know shit to begin with. The show is stride with david lynch, who never was appreciated by critics but made art that forced you to think and talk rather than sit and puke. GET BACK IN THE GAME HBO!
August 14th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
@dozens-
If you don’t get it just don’t watch it.
News flash Milch wasn’t writing it.
You like telling people what they should do, huh?
You should re-evaluate your post.
Oh yeah, and nobody cares what you like.
Quiet DOWN haters.
August 14th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
I think that John from Cincinnati was a brilliant show, Possible the most challenging program on television since the Prisoner. Its was smart, and odd and thought provoking, This advanced Television and its not for everyone, this is tv that your not necessarily supposed to get on a first viewing, TV culture has a passivity about it, especially in the recent era the audiences seem to want a everything wrapped up in a neat little bow, just like life…oopsie, life doesn’t work that way does it.
The uproar over the Sopranos ending is a great example of this; for about a week and a half that was all anyone seemed to talk about; “what did it mean”, ‘ what happened next”. For those that didn’t figure it out here it is in black and white: Life went on, maybe something happend, maybe it didn’t but a for a flickering moment you had the same trepidation as Tony, is today the day? The maker of the show asks the viewer to use their imagination and the viewership isn’t always up to the task. What is even more remarkable is for that week and half it was the most epic tv ending since M*A*S*H, before the summer is over it became a Trivial Pursuit answer that most will get wrong.
J from C ’s biggest sin is that it got cut to short, they could only hint at what was to be. My guess is that this choice was less an artistic one then HBO keeping it on a short leash. Sort of a -”if you can build a fanbase in 10 weeks your good, otherwise you can go to the isle of misfit shows “kinda thing. In fairness you can’t blame HBO, their sunday nights sells from either sexy or violent, John was neither. Instead its TV in search of it soul, and the audience seldom rallies around that flag. Dylan’s born again period anyone? As a commercial choice this is purely an outside shot, It requires the viewer to be actively engaged. Thats not a problem that “Sex in the City” or “the Sopranos” have. You can watch those shows drunk, and get the general gist of them. Whereas you could write a dissertation about any episode of J from C and still not totally get it. Thats not to say they weren’t well made shows, the just had a different level of detail.
The great thing about an ambiguous show is that response to it can’t be defined anymore concretely then the show itself. There isn’t a right answer, or for that matter a wrong one, it just is. It seemed like the makers wanted to be able to hint at what was to come and did it with far more detail then one would suspect from the show.
There is also a more sinister option, that it was planned obsolesce that HBO would can the show early and try and then use guerrilla tactics to grow support and audience. That would be a losing ploy though, the viewers of J from C a viewers that have premium cable, they have jobs and lives, and thinking they would take time away from those to sign petitions or send letters to the network is just sort of silly, after all if their main problem is the that you need the viewer to think, how can you expect them to take action.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:15 am
I started watching out of curiosity and because I live 10 minutes from Imperial Beach. I kept watching, hoping for an explanation that never really came. I loved the characters, even the nearly unlovable Cissy.
In the end, especially now that it has been cancelled, I am left with the feeling of “WTF” did it all mean? I did work to figure it all out, mostly working on biblical themes. Was the IB parade the equivalent to palm Sunday? Was Shawnie Jesus and John the Baptist? Tina the Magdalene?
I guess we’ll never know now.
Maybe it wasn’t meant to be answered. Maybe it was meant to get you thinking, unlike Seinfeld or Friends….
August 15th, 2007 at 8:37 am
Hey, I just realized some things about the car salesman.
He says “Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ. Crosses and shoulders to bear em.” 3 JCs.(think of Shaun and Butchie reaching up to pull Mitch down) trinity?
Before that he says he’s a Shepherd. Says something about evanessense and waves and ripples(ghosts and quantum physics?)(if i had to guess Milch wants to be this guy ;))
There is certainly a deeper point to the story. I just don’t know if anyone here is really getting it.
August 15th, 2007 at 8:56 am
The problem is, most are reading 9 11 14 as a date (9/11/14). Try reading it as the Bible passage 9:11:14, which in my biblically challenged mind is about redemption and the changing of the guard, so to speak.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Emanuel Swedenborg
August 15th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Re: whosmav
Wow…how bizarre. And William Blake. I feel like I’m back in college. Three in one? Yes, careers have been altered with that launching pad. Is Milch up to that?
August 15th, 2007 at 10:23 am
I’m in love with the opening scene of the finale.
It makes me want to get in the game.
And learn to surf.
This show affected/effected me.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:37 am
To Mike:
What is 9:11:14 in the bible? What book? I don’t see any books that have three levels of notation, so if you are talking Hebrews:9:11-14, thats different than 9:11:14… If that is what you’re referring to, yes it’s about redemption, but a bit obscure, mostly pointing out that the redemption available in the past (via tha blood of animal sacrifice) is far inferior to the redemption offered by the blood of Christ…. I don’t se how that applies…the central theme of JFC seems to be more that we have to make use of the tools at our disposal to work our own salvation/redemption, and the help we will get from ‘divine sources’ will likely be obscure and mostly direct us to look within…
August 15th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Doug, EASY!! I said I was “biblically deficient.” I only mentioned that because I thought no one else had. I mean, it’s only a TV show. Take care
August 15th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Mike:
LOL…sorry….probably thinking a bit too hard about this, you’re right….
August 15th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Hey - HBO! Look what people are talking about on this blog - faith, the bible, redemption, spirituality - It’s the most intellectually stimulating conversation I’ve heard in a long time. And it’s not just this blog! It seems this show has done the crossover that all the networks are desperately trying to do and I don’t think HBO even realizes it!
August 16th, 2007 at 6:16 am
Sad to hear that ‘John’ has been cancelled. I really believe that this show could have become a cult classic if HBO was a bit more patient. I still think there is an outside chance that another cable network picks up the show. In regards to the last episode, they started to really incorporate the God themes - constant sky (heaven) shots, John discussing ‘his (almightly) father’, Bill’s bird(Holy Spirit), Shaun being seen in the bar with the dead guy (death - resurrection) , and levitation (The biblical references often hold fascinating stories behind them. It is believed that in the first century a man named Simon Magnus levitated himself in view of St. Peter as a challenge to prove he possessed magical powers) Other interesting references: John buying an El Camino (Spanish translation: ‘The Road’ - refering to this long strange journey).
August 16th, 2007 at 8:54 am
Yeah, there was certainly no lack of interesting images/symbols in this show, from the “God the father(used car salesman), God the son (autistic from Cincinnati), God the Holy Spirit (parrot)” stuff to the 9/11 references, to surfing as resurrection, to Shaun’s mother being a porn queen (the anti-virgin?). This was a strange show, and it’s disappointing that it won’t go forward. Maybe Milch will eventually pull a David Lynch (re: Mulholland Drive) and explain it all to us on some blog somewhere. I just hope it doesn’t turn out to be Butchie’s last trip/dream as he overdoses or something stupid like that….
As far as whether HBO made the right decision in cutting the show from tehir schedule, in the end it’s all about dollars. I remember watching the show ‘Profit’ several years ago, and kind of feeling the same way. I was fascinated by the show, but as I watched, a voice in my head kept saying ‘No way is the rest of America buying this…’ I think we all probably had the same feeling with JFC… it just wasn’t going to click with the kind of big numbers that HBO needs for their Sunday lineup. I just hope that maybe there’s a direct-to-DVD possibility for continuing the show somewhere in the future, before Greyson Fletcher (Shaun) grows too old…
August 16th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Although there appear to be many passionate fans of the show, it has ultimately failed to gather an actual audience. This doesn’t in my mind reflect on the lack of taste in the HBO audience as a whole, because other shows that are eclectic or fringe, or intelligent, have been able to attract sufficient numbers.
So it is much more likely that the show is deficient, not the audience. Not liking this show does not equate to being a drooling American Idol fan.
Personally I think the show was poorly conceived and written, and quite predictable in a disappointing way. They used the Sopranos lead-in to advertise it heavily, and it was apparent from watching the trailer where they were going to go with this show. The first time I saw the trailer I thought, ’so it will be like Lost with jesus or john the baptist’. Not interested. I did give it a chance though and was even more disappointed with the execution.
The fact is, that some of us think, in reference to a comment above, that ‘faith, the bible, redemption, spirituality’ _is not_ an ‘intellectually stimulating conversation’, especially when it is heaped on in such corny ways.
It seems apparent that the cable audience is by and large more secular, as evidenced by the poularity of shows like Bullshit on Showtime. So while some people probably loved and found comfort with the preponderance of faith issues and puzzles, I don’t think that on a whole the HBO audience did.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
>Hey - HBO! Look what people are talking about on this blog >- faith, the bible, redemption, spirituality - It’s the >most intellectually stimulating conversation I’ve heard in >a long time. And it’s not just this blog! It seems this >show has done the crossover that all the networks are >desperately trying to do and I don’t think HBO even >realizes it!
Oh, HBO realizes this. The themes in this show were much too wholesome for them. They’d rather run drivel like Bill Maher constantly slamming the president, or the porn shows like “Real Sex” and that new fall series they’re hyping so much now. They were probably intrigued by the possibilities of JFC featuring among its major characters a junkie, a child molester, and a porn queen…and even introducing a former LSD guru toward the end. Ooh, right up their alley! But when the new powers-that-be there realized that these behaviors were being shown as flaws in the characters, and that they were turning away from their shameful behavior in search of a higher spiritual redemption, well, they couldn’t have that! Their cancellation of this series didn’t surprise me in the least. Despite the profusion of f-bombs in it, which I know turned off some viewers who would have loved its message, it was a much more wholesome show than most of the stuff the ultra-liberal HBO dishes up.
I talked it up as much as I could, but I have yet to find one person locally who was watching the show. Interestingly enough, most of the people I thought would be candidates to love this show said they didn’t have HBO. I think their subscriber base is about to decline even further, from what many have said on these bulletin boards. What a shame!
But, looking on the bright side…we’ll all save money when we have only one season’s worth of DVDs to buy - and only 10 shows in the season, at that!
Thanks to HBO for giving the series a shot, even though they were short-sighted in pulling the plug on it. Thanks to David Milch and Kem Nunn for the show’s concept, and to all the wonderful writers who gave us such memorable dialog and inserted just the right symbolic elements to spark a thousand discussions. Thanks to the actors, especially Rebecca De Mornay, Brian Van Holt and Ed O’Neill, for your outstanding performances. You were sometimes painful to watch, and you all sold the characters and their multiple flaws beautifully. Thanks to the camera crews who captured the surfing scenes so perfectly, and to the editors who put it all together so well. Thanks to the folks who chose the music for it; I’ve already downloaded all the songs from iTunes. Great stuff! This was a little jewel of a series I’ll miss very much.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
@Cliff
Sorry you don’t get it Professor Couch Potato.
This is a place for fans of the show, not fucking critics trying to castrate it.
Personally I think your comment was poorly conceived and written, and quite predictable in a disappointing way.
Your patronizing condescending tone isn’t appreciated(and its not even original).
You obviously know dick about shit.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
whomasv:
I thought the thread was for people to express what they thought of the episode, and what they thought about the series potentially coming back. I tried to do that in a respectful way without name calling or casting aspersions.
I’m sorry you were so offended by that. I don’t think it is patronizing or condescending. I just think the show is poorly written. I also attempted to explain why it might not appeal to the rest of the HBO audience, which is, in the end, why it was canceled.
The reason it matters to me is that I am a fan of HBO in general, and think they without question produce the highest quality television out there today, so I’d like them to spend more time on actual good shows, and not JFC.
The other reason it matters is that it is pretty silly to say that if you don’t like this show, you must me an American Idol fan. That’s patently ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe, people didn’t like the show because it wasn’t very good?
Perhaps endless ruminations on faith, psychobabble, ‘mystery plots’, silly dialog and uneven characters would be more at home on ABC, where they could find an audience, although they would need to drop the profanity.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
No worries, Cliff. Whomasv was just channeling (perfectly) Butchie.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Dave in Indy:
if that’s the case, then, much respect to you whomasv, you got me good
LOL
August 16th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Cliff, go to the HBO forums with your jibberjabber lest you desire continuous unrelenting aspersion.
And yes this is a place to discuss the episodes. You did that WHERE in your post?
This isn’t the stopjohnfromcincinnatiblog. Maybe you didn’t see the petition on the home page. Why are you even here?
YOU could never offend me.
You’re the one who is so offended for being called an American Idol fan. I love Idol by the way. But thats for another blog.
“The box is for you.”
August 16th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
LOL - Cliff, I guess it was just wishful thinking.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
well, good riddance to bad shows and obnoxious fans.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
good riddance cliff
August 16th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
“Mother of God CassKai” showing Kai surfing. Obvious. She’ll give birth to Butchie’s child, the new Messiah.
John? John the Baptist comin’ back to prepare the way. Healing the family, bringing in the comfortable cover (Stinkweed) for the promotion of the family.
Just think of what a great surfer the new Messiah will make! SHe’ll talk on water alright, and float along with her grandfather.
And the Doctor, 20 years younger and amazed at every second of his life. The new Luke? The Doctor who will pay attention.
A beautiful show. David Milch, if you read or hear of thoughts on this blog, if the show doesn’t come back please consider doing a book or comic book or something spelling out the story. If 9/11/14 was the setting for the second season, when the new Christ (male or female) would be seven years old and talking and preaching aplenty, please at least give us the data if every network passes on the season. Or just get the actors to do a movie to tell the rest of the story.
93 and counting.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Few more thoughts pertaining to Kai as the Holy Mother of the next Messiah, etc.: The song which follows the final scene of her surfing contains the word ‘Mary’ in the first line or two.
John showed Kai God. Directly. God as the One who inhabits all living beings. Cass saw it directly too, before John said he’d show her, so the experience isn’t timebound.
During the sex act with Butchie which conceived the new Messiah the song playing refers to “in her eyes a thousand churches”.
The used car salesman just goes to show that all is One, and John is able to play the game. Somethings he knows and somethings he doesn’t, my main teacher told me that with awareness we should be able to see half of what’s going to occur and to leave at least half unseen. So we don’t become bored.
See God.
August 16th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Great interview piece with David Milch at Variety.com
http://weblogs.variety.com/on_the_air/2007/08/john-from-cin-2.html
August 16th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Good interview link Ed Sweeney. Ed Sweeney is back in the game. David Milch lets us in on some of his thinking but not everything. Some things he tells some things he doesn’t. Still fits my theory. Every man and woman is a star, CassKai, and every man and woman live in the GoddessGod of existence. Hence the Royal Road, used by many in the past but that assumes that past has meaning.
August 17th, 2007 at 9:35 am
Thank God they canceled this piece of shit show. What a waste, Milch should have stuck with Deadwood. The acting was even worse than the writing which says a lot.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
THIS SHOW WAS SO INTENSE THAT IT WOULD NOT APPEAL TO THOSE OF US WHO ARE JUST TOO DAMN LAZY TO WANT TO THINK! THAT IS A TRAGEDY. FOR THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE, SHAME ON YOU FOR NOT WANTING TO THINK FOR YOURSELVES. I GUESS THERE ARE SOME PRETTY SHALLOW PEOPLE WHO WOULD RATHER BE TOLD WHAT TO DO, HOW TO THINK AND HOW TO FEEL ABOUT CHARACTERS ON TELEVISION. I WOULD IMAGINE THIS CARRIES OVER TO THEIR LIVES IN GENERAL. SAD SAD SAD! FOR ME, I WILL MISS JOHN FROM CINCINATTI. HBO, PLEASE BRING IT BACK!
August 17th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I can do hyperbole too:
Dragonlady, your post was incredibly condescending and wildly fatuous, stating your point in absolutely the most extreme fashion possible, even imaginable. It is precisely your type of interaction that makes this board simply impossible to enjoy, even by exceptionally intelligent, hard-working JFC enjoyers for whom this issue has become simply intolerant!
… ouch, that hurt.
August 17th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
SORRY IF I OFFENDED ANYONE. I LOST MY COOL AFTER READING THE POST PRIOR TO MINE. I AM UPSET ABOUT THE CANCELATION.
August 17th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Dragonlady, hello and fire flowing. Nice passion. But you shout every word (caps). Pull back the flame to simmer, and experience the wonderful world of lower and longer heat.
August 17th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
This may be a reflection of my true self. Very passionate full flame ahead. Or maybe I’m just too lazy to hit the shift key. lol!
August 17th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Why do I feel like this discussion should be taking place in the parking lot of a local motel? I’ll bring the folding beach chairs….
August 17th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
That motel still exists in IB, the locals know it well. I wonder how much they want for it?
August 17th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
I am sad to see John go…
It could have been different, but Milch wanted it this way… so I guess there is not thing to be sad about.
August 17th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
OK, it has to be said. I really like the show but it seems to have attracted all the new age Jesus freaks. If this show was a source of inspiration for you or you find it profoundly important to our culture, you need hobbies bad. I relly don’t even think Milch would be so obvious, he spoon feeds you the biblical parallels so you’ll eat them up (and you do), but do you really think the big pay-off would be a Jesus figure or anything Judeo-Christian for that matter? Furthermore, and again I am a fan (OK whosmav the blog nazi?) I think as it stands the show is all hook, the episodes had great characters but they could have done a lot more with a 1 hour slot. What kept us coming back was the fundamental question we get from the first episode: Who/What is John and what the fuck is going on….All hook. PS. Whosmav, Dont forget to drown yourself. Good show, could’ve been great, not jesus.Bye
August 17th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Hi Cliff, I agree with your post. While I loved the fact the show was about Imperial Beach (15 minutes from La Jolla), a surf family, Bruce Greenwood, Rebecca DeMornay, Ed O’Neill, and other cast members from the awesome show Deadwood, I thought it was sloppy, poorly written and badly executed. Basically it was a mess. My husband thought it was a pretentious mess. I still find myself loving the characters. I want to spend time with these people in their lives with all their shit and thought the whole thing could have been done better. Milch is notorious and has been criticized for bringing in boatloads of characters which are unnecessary and I agree with that here. I had just told someone the morning of the finale that they need to get rid of John. That the gimmick of John (for me) was over, enough, he was turning more into an annoyance than anything else and I was tiring of watching his smirking face, talking about his fathers words and his fathers house. And I’m tired of all the Christianity surrounding this. Everyone reads what they want to into everything - he could have been an alien - how do we know? I read a great article suggesting it could be Milch’s warning against false prophets. All in all, I wish I could have gotten a better executed, better written show instead of a big dissapointment.
August 17th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
I rather resent being referred to as a “Jesus Freak”. My interpretation of the images in this show are based on my experiences, which are predominantly Christian. And you can’t deny that there are a ton of Christian references in the show’s own websites like johnmonad.com, so it’s not just our imagination or “faith” that put those references there.
On another of these bulletin boards, I posted the following before the final episode aired:
John is a guide, sent by God, to move these people toward finding the redemption they all so desperately need. Whether you want to call him a prophet, an angel, the messiah, or whatever is really irrelevant.
I think we’re all trying too hard to fit John and what happens in this show into our own paradigms of religion, based on our own individual beliefs.
Remember, this is a family of surfers. Whatever form of redemption they find, which I firmly believe that even Cissy will find, is bound to be related to the ocean and the sport of surfing. There may be similarities to a number of existing world religions, which I think is no accident, but that’s just to help us see the basic message more clearly, by putting it into a familiar frame we can understand.
If it turns out that the message of this show is not a Christian one, don’t be disappointed; the basic truths are still the same, across all faiths. And I think, based on what Milch has said in interviews, that pointing us toward these basic truths is his ultimate goal with the show, its ultimate message.
August 17th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
That’s my point Lynn, why do you think there has to be a message? Why can’t highly cognitive t.v. just be entertaining? As for the term “Jesus freak”, it is meant to describe christian fanatics. I define fanatic as someone who can’t change their minds and won’t change the subject. You will find Jesus in everything because that is what you are looking for, especially since 9/11. Christianity from a historical perspective is much different than what you and your buddies have made it. There is no rapture. Do me a favor, take an hour and count how many terrible conflicts, wars,genocides,etc. would have never happened if there were no religions. John from Liverpool tried to tell us but he got shot.
August 18th, 2007 at 12:22 am
This show was like watching a suspense thriller. It kept me on the edge of my seat, but not because of a knife or chainsaw coming out of the dark.
Where is it going this time? What does that comment mean in the long term for the characters? I tried to analyze everything that each character said.
The end is near. It seemed to have been a prophecy that John was uttering. The end came.
I am sorry to see the show end with no indication of what it all meant.
August 18th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Yeah, Chuck, anybody who has the audacity to speak truths people don’t want to hear has a tendency to get crucified…
Religion is not the only power in the universe that leads people to commit atrocities. Money and power are two others that come to mind. Religion is more often the excuse, when one of those two is the true reason.
At least I and “my buddies”, as you refer to us, aren’t looking to subjugate or annihilate anybody who doesn’t agree with us. Not the case for the perpetrators of 9/11. Sure, Christianity went through times when its followers did live by that mantra, but as the faith has evolved, more moderate and level-headed people have tempered that viewpoint.
What’s happening today is a similar critical turning point in the evolution of Islam. There are many factions within that faith that are battling for supremacy. If the fanatics we’re fighting in Iraq win, we can all look forward to more and more parts of the world falling under totalitarian, Islamic regimes. They may subjugate us last, but they’ll do it eventually…if we pull out of Iraq before winning. This free exchange of ideas in which we’re now participating would no longer be possible under such a regime, nor would your freedom to choose living without any type of religious influence in your own life and merely “be entertained” by what you watch on TV.
If, however, the moderate Muslims prevail, which they cannot do without the help of freedom-loving nations like ours, those who choose to follow other faiths can continue to co-exist in the world. Those who wish to express themselves through such thought-provoking series as JFC can continue to create them. And you and I can discuss it all in forums like this.
Now, how many TV shows have you watched that have inspired such discussions? The people who have dismissed JFC as dreck haven’t begun to explore its many intricacies and implications. And maybe, in the end, that was why HBO had to silence it. If too many people start thinking and raising the bar of expectations for shows to provoke such thought (just as the Yost clan was awakened to the possibilities beyond what they thought possible), those overpaid programming execs wouldn’t be able to get away with airing half the stuff they do now.
(Oh, and as for “finding Jesus in everything”, the presence of Biblical references in this show is well documented by its producers and promoters. Why would they have gone to such trouble to put up sites like johnmonad.com if they didn’t want us to notice those references? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…)
August 18th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Lynn, My suspicions were correct. Your rant gives you away. You not only support the war in Iraq that is raping our country, you actually think that if we don’t “win” we will fall under the control of a totalitarian Islamic regime (your words). Wow the extent to which you’ve been indoctrinated by the religious right is amazing. You say religion is not responsible for the world’s atrocities, that money and power are to blame. Well Lynn, check your history sister, you cannot seperate religion from money and power. The three (the real trinity) have controled the world for the last two thousand years. So, go kneel under your G.W.Bush poster amd pray for a brain. The towel heads on 9/11 thought they hurt us by knocking down some buildings and killing two thousand people. If they could see what their actions have done to you and, unfortunately, many others in this country they would do it again real soon. I know this blog is for JFC and I apologize to those of you who I’m sure are annoyed by this exchange, but I cannot stand the super-Christian, terribly misguided, post 9/11 sensability that is running rampant in this once great nation. Oh, and Lynn, news flash: We lost the day we invaded Iraq (Which by the way had nothing to do with 9/11). If you are representative of the fan base I’m glad it was canceled.
August 18th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
John will be gone.HBO may be pulling us in further.Would not be surprised at a late announcement of a second season.I don’t know,HBO instead.1010
August 19th, 2007 at 7:12 am
I have tried to get into this show. I keep waiting to see if something is going to happen. It is horrible. If you get sucked into this show, you seriously need to examine your lack of a life. Shaun is the worst actor I have ever seen. Cissy needs to be bitch slapped. This is the slowest show ever. You can conjure up whatever inner meanings you want for this, but if you sit through this every week, you have no life. Don’t fool yourself in thinking this is some sort of cinematic genius. It is not. It is “throw something against the wall and hope it sticks.” Admit it. You are so desperate for good tv you will continue to watch this trash so you can
1. Think you are fringe and understand what others cant and 2. Have NO life.
August 19th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Ah, Chuck, I believe you are the one who has given yourself away with your last posting. I present an opinion of world events that differs from yours, and you descend into personal attacks. Nice. You don’t know me, and the people who do would laugh their asses off at your smug little assessment of me. But you’ve got the whole thing figured out, don’t you? Maybe you’d like to volunteer to go over and negotiate with these people who would just as soon saw off your head as look at you. No, I imagine you’ll just stick your head back in the sand and hope they go away. The Neville Chamberlains of the world always do. (Ooh, there’s a historical reference! Guess that means I know a little about history, too! There goes another of your accusations out the window.)
Now, can we end this silliness and get back to talking about the show? I enjoyed it immensely, and would love a second season if for nothing more than the music. Awesome choices!
August 19th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Ah, politics raises its ugly and beautiful head. John would just smile, because some things. . .
Maybe the imagery in JFC slants the Christian fable into new dimensions and into the 21st Century. John as John the Baptist and Kai as the coming mother of a new Messiah (one who knows and preaches the oneness of life) bypass the zealots and brings God/Goddess/Allah out of stone buildings and into the perception of those who look.
As for Iraq, George Bush, etc.: All we need to see is the inappropriate emotion of Bush when he talks about his death games. He smiles, he smirks. Psychopath.
But then again, Bush will be off-line in Jan. ‘09
August 19th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Have been reasonably intrigued to continue watching to the last show, which fell flat once again. Some insights & answers, but I conisder the show unsuccessful as it truly floundered… too many insignifant characters with insignificant moments and gestures to hold - apparently everyone’s - interest. Needed more focus overall. I love John and think he was brilliantly cast & Kai as well & especially liked the very end with Mother of God Cass/Kai. Cass holding the key to the universe (her camera and lens) with Kai as the ultra-modern-day Woman.
Zeros & Ones… the simplistic stick figure(s).. simplistic and symbolic once again. I loved the puzzles/enigmatic moments that caused you to mull and converse. Some of the hip quips like “whippin your skippy” were fun as well. John will soon be gone! But where will he appear next?!
August 19th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Kudos on your Chamberlain defense Lynn. I will appease you (get it?) and end our debate. Nice sparring with you, bring back John. Over and out:)
August 19th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
This was a great show. I’m gonna miss these folks. I did like the character development and easily got sucked in. reminds me of the demise of “push nevada.” Thanks for the season….hope for another (doubt i’ll get it)
August 20th, 2007 at 1:56 am
Religion has nothing to do with this show. Trying to fit the vast properties of this show into a single frame is completely contradictory to the creators’ vision and, in fact, the very reason for it’s cancellation. I would be pleased to see a more secular interpretation of the shows many themes. There is no doubt that the show is about redemption and that John is in some strange way a purifier, stripping all malace from even the most spiteful words and regurgitating them in such a way that central characters are able to see themselves and others in a new light. This is not to say that there are not strong and in some cases obvious religious themes woven into the fabric of JFC; however, the show would best be viewed as a quilt composed of many themes. Personally, I would be insulted if the many references to John’s “father” were actually intended to so obviously reference God.
Remember in episode 7 when Butchie drops the magazine to the floor? The headline reads “Strange Activity in the Skies Above Imperial Beach”. To simply overlook this fact would be a grievous fault. In order to understand this show, viewers NEED to rewatch episodes over and over again and look for these small but very important clues.
I have even noticed that if you play some scenes in reverse, there are secret hidden messages. For example, in episode 2, immediately after Dr. Smith breaks the news of Sean’s terminal condition, reverse the audio and turn up the volume and you will hear “The bird is the key.”
Also, if you take the last word from every episode, the first letter of every word spells “aftershock”. This is a direct reference to the 9-22-01 TIME magazine Photoessay “Aftershock” by Anthony Suau depicting the aftermath of 9-11. If you look first at picture 9, the message “hope is alive” is displayed prominently in the background. If you follow by looking at picture 11, which depicts a wanted poster of Osama bin Laden, the writers of JFC have presented us with a clear message… Hope is alive, even in the face of great adversity.
Furthermore, if you take John’s “9-11-14 end” reference and add those numbers together, you get 34. 34 is the ninth number of the Fibonacci sequence. It is known that Fibonacci sequences